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Author Topic: Best disc for sidearm throwing?  (Read 20980 times)
Sidearm3163
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« on: July 31, 2007, 09:38:48 AM »

I dont know if this should be posted in this section or the technique section, but here goes...

When it comes to sidearm/forehand throwing, are some discs better than others?  Does the counter-clockwise spin have any effect on the discs flight other than the obvious fact that the disc will fall off the the right rather than the left when compared to RHBH?

I know I have a bunch of questions today.  I have taken the last 4 days off from discin' but my brain has been in overdrive trying to analyze my game.

As always, any help would be swell.

Cheers.
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Sidearm3163
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« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2007, 09:58:45 AM »

I guess the question of location has been answered Very Happy
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JConnell17393
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« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2007, 10:28:11 AM »

I tend to find myself in the minority on this opinion, but there is no such thing as a great "sidearm" disc that isn't also a great backhand disc.  The opposite spin does ONLY affect the direction in which the disc fades off.  Where the differences in disc flight with a sidearm and a backhand differ has everything to do with technique, not the actual disc.

That's not to say that whatever you are driving backhand with automatically will be something you can successfully sidearm.  Or vice versa.  As I like to say, there is no one-size-fits-all disc out there, be it for backhands, sidearms, overhands, underhands, etc.  It's just a matter of trying discs until you find the ones that work best for you.

--Josh
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Power Flicker
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« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2007, 12:32:06 PM »

I will have to say, through practical application of theory, Josh is correct: a disc is a disc is a disc.  Show me any manufacturer that says a particular disc is specifically designed for sidearm throws and I'll show you some lakefront property in Tuscon I'll sell ya. Wink

Seriously, when I go and practice drives on the local soccer field, I bring every disc i can fit into my bag.  I'll throw all backhand drives until the bag is empty, pick them all up, then throw all sidearm drives until the bag is empty, pick them all up, throw all backhand drives, and so on.  When I'm on the course, I may choose a certain disc for a certain hole for a certain reason, but I know I can throw any of my discs sidearm or backhand if I have to and that gives me more options.  I've stepped up to some holes and thought, 'I always throw sidearm on this hole.  What if I threw a backhand? How could I make it work?'  so I try throwing a backhand, or vise versa.

Remember: YOU control the disc; not the other way around. Smile
« Last Edit: July 31, 2007, 01:18:44 PM by Power Flicker » Logged

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Firechicken
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« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2007, 12:47:47 PM »

yes you control a disc and that is the rules but rember that when the disc is designed is it designed with both directions of spin in mind. i dont think they take it that far do they.
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Viper73
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« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2007, 06:02:31 PM »

A friend of mine always forehands with a Star Max.  Flies far for him. 
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TomSkully
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« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2007, 06:31:13 PM »

I agree that no disc is specifically the best sidearm disc, I have noticed that alot of people tend to use very overstable discs to sidearm with, examples: Max, Monster, Flick, Predator. I think the only difference other then the obvious, is that most people can put more snap on a disc with a sidearm, thus turning over less overstable plastic. The direction of the spin should have no affect on the disc's flight, otherwise they would have discs for lefties and righties.

Tom
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Viper73
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« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2007, 07:18:38 PM »

How is this for a mind bender.  Would a broken in disc from a right hander fly the same for a left hander after on a molecular level the disc is used to flying clockwise most of its life?  All the wear and tear is in a right handed favor.
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« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2007, 08:41:08 PM »

How is this for a mind bender.  Would a broken in disc from a right hander fly the same for a left hander after on a molecular level the disc is used to flying clockwise most of its life?  All the wear and tear is in a right handed favor.

Um, they grow good stuff out there in HI eh? Laughing
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Sidearm3163
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« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2007, 08:54:35 PM »

Quote
Um, they grow good stuff out there in HI eh?


LOL...  Awesome response.
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Power Flicker
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« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2007, 09:26:18 PM »

How is this for a mind bender.  Would a broken in disc from a right hander fly the same for a left hander after on a molecular level the disc is used to flying clockwise most of its life?  All the wear and tear is in a right handed favor.

"OOO OOO, Mista Kotta, I know this wun...

The question, although obtuse, is quite legitimate, but the theorem would be dependent upon wether or not the first thrower was predominately backhand or sidearm throwing.

Essentially, if all the heavy damage on the edge has a common singular directional characteristic, then that disc is going to have a somewhat better drag coefficient while spinning one direction as opposed to the other."

"Thank you, Mr. Epstein."
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Viper73
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« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2007, 10:17:06 PM »

Of course I am referring to a back handed player, and not so much heavy damage, just normal damage.
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ChingChing
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« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2007, 09:36:00 AM »

I will have to say, through practical application of theory, Josh is correct: a disc is a disc is a disc.  Show me any manufacturer that says a particular disc is specifically designed for sidearm throws and I'll show you some lakefront property in Tuscon I'll sell ya. Wink

Can't wait to see that property.....Discraft made the Flick a few years back and touted it as a sidearm disc.
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Sidearm3163
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« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2007, 11:22:33 AM »

The star destroyer seems also to be recommended for sidearm.

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JConnell17393
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« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2007, 11:47:16 AM »

I don't know.  "Touted" and "Recommended" don't sound like "designed specifically for" to me.  The Flick can be backhanded just as effectively as it can be sidearmed, regardless of how Discraft tries to market it.  I think it's just an extension of the misconception that over-stable discs make good sidearm discs and under-stable discs do not.  It's in the technique, not the disc.

--Josh
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Sidearm3163
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« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2007, 03:08:24 PM »

First off, I don't know what the deal is lately, but a lot of people seem to be in poor moods (pissed off, defensive, etc.) lately.  I don't know if it is the summer heat making people irritated or what, but jeez, lets have some friendly discussion.  I know this is off-topic and I am sorry, but it just seems that no one can have an opinion without another person tearing them down.

Second, I used the word "recommended" because I have been on the net searching for discs and reading as much as I can and have not found the words "Great disc for sidearm throwers and those with lots of power"  on very many if any disc descriptions that weren't reviews.

I agree that there isn't a whole lot you can say to support the theory of a disc being designed for sidearm.  It really is the player and not his disc that, over time, learns to embrace accuracy and distance.  But am I terribly mistaken that up to a certain level of play the sidearm throw does harness more power (and possibly less accuracy) than it's counterpart the backhand?  Isn't the fact that the Destroyer has a speed of 12 an indication that you really need a big arm to throw it and thus the sidearm throw would invariably (up to a certain skill level) make that disc easier to throw?

I might be way off here, but I know that around where I live, I am in the top 5-10% as far as distance and one of only three players (that I have seen out on the course) that throw sidearm as their primary driver throwing style.  And as far an I can tell that is because I have a big and fast throw whereas my backhanded friends who are similar to myself in skill with approaching and putting cannot throw the higher speed discs as well.

I hope that rambling made sense or at least perched on it's precipice for a moment. 

Cheers.
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JConnell17393
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« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2007, 03:50:13 PM »

First off, I don't know what the deal is lately, but a lot of people seem to be in poor moods (pissed off, defensive, etc.) lately.  I don't know if it is the summer heat making people irritated or what, but jeez, lets have some friendly discussion.  I know this is off-topic and I am sorry, but it just seems that no one can have an opinion without another person tearing them down.
At the risk of coming off defensive (oops), I do have to say this.  I've never ever made a post here out of anger or in a pissed off/fighting mood.  If I've ever come off that way, I apologize.  Just trying to state my opinions (albeit some might come off stronger than others) and be a part of the conversation like everyone else.  Sometimes humor or sarcasm or bemoaning a pet peeve doesn't come across all that well or positive (which was the true intent of my previous post).  It's the curse of the black and white medium (no tone, no inflection, no emotion).

 Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

--Josh
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obiwankaneobi
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« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2007, 05:45:40 PM »

That is so true. It's also one reason I like smilies! When reading posts or even emails it is often more difficult to get the real emotion of the person. Misinterpretations are easy. I feel everyone on this forum are either trying to be helpfull and friendly or funny. I know I like it for info as well as laughs.
  The only thing that ever gets under my skin is when I read someone giving incorrect info to others.  Sad
Just in case that last sentence has nothing to do with any opinions or facts from this thread.  Very Happy
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Sidearm3163
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« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2007, 05:49:33 PM »

I wasn't trying to point fingers at all.  Josh you are correct about the fact that the vblack and white is a hard thing to interpret 100% correct all the time.  Again, I was just making a general statment.

All smiles here Very Happy
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Power Flicker
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« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2007, 03:29:11 PM »

The star destroyer seems also to be recommended for sidearm.



I think the exact verbage from the Innova website is "...great for sidearm shots."  but that's it.   They just assert that it is 'great for sidearm shots' without any supporting points.

IMHO, the biggest detractor from a disc that I want to throw sidearm with is the edge.  Disc profiles that have a sharp leading edge are less comfortable to throw sidearm.  Right now, my personal favorite to throw sidearm is the Illusion; comfortable on the snap and boy, does it GO!
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steveohio
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« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2008, 08:20:31 PM »

No question about the "right disc"
My question is whether there comes a time in ones age that you shouldnt try
sidearm throwing. Blake T a long time ago suggested I not because of the strain
it places on the elbow. With that I decided it was not a good idea to possibly
curtail my game for a new throwing technique. I do use a flick shot occasionally,
and it's not caused any discomfort. Any comments on this? 59 going on 60 in May.
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JConnell17393
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« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2008, 07:07:36 AM »

No question about the "right disc"
My question is whether there comes a time in ones age that you shouldnt try
sidearm throwing. Blake T a long time ago suggested I not because of the strain
it places on the elbow. With that I decided it was not a good idea to possibly
curtail my game for a new throwing technique. I do use a flick shot occasionally,
and it's not caused any discomfort. Any comments on this? 59 going on 60 in May.
I would think that as a secondary shot, something you throw on occasion, you'd be ok.  But as with anything, you really should be building yourself up to a point where you can throw it far and often before you actually do try to throw it far and often.  I like to use baseball analogies...it's like pitching...you don't immediately go to the mound and start firing 90mph fastballs.  You warm up and gradually build up to full speed.  Also, you don't immediately start throwing a curveball on every pitch, especially if you've never done it before and your arm is not accustomed to it.  You slowly work into it...throwing soft curves every few pitches until you have the technique and strength to do it full speed and often.

So my recommendation is that if you want to add a sidearm to your repertoire, you should ease into it.  You mention that you use a flick shot occasionally...that's a good start.  I assume you mean for short distances only, which is also good.  Just build on that.  Gradually try to throw it a little bit further and with a bit more snap.  Just because you can accurately flick a shot 50 feet around an obstacle doesn't mean you can do it from 200 right off the bat.

Steve, my dad is 57.  He throws pre-dominantly overhand shots, maxing out around 300 feet.  He puts many young guns (myself included, unfortunately) to shame with his ability to keep doing it on every single hole for an entire 18 hole round.  He's also been playing this way for eight years or so.  Sure he's sore at the end of the day (36 holes seem to be his max for a day), but has not incurred any long term injury yet.  There was a point where his elbow would get sore and swell by the end of a round, but he treated it (ice and ibuprofen) and played through it and now he has zero problems with it for going on five years.  He built up the appropriate muscles so they could handle the load.  The biggest key for him is that he never goes more than two weeks without playing.  He plays a mid-week league and tournaments on the weekend during the summer, and tries to get out every weekend during the winter too.  The way he figures, at his age, if he gets out of practice or out of shape, then he's pretty much done playing (certainly more at risk for injury).

So take it slow, warm up properly, and don't get out of practice, and I think a sidearm can be a weapon in your bag.

--Josh
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« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2008, 08:07:33 AM »

A disc may be a disc, Josh, but I challenge you to side-arm a 10M brick or an Arrow.  Smile
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JConnell17393
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« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2008, 09:51:39 AM »

A disc may be a disc, Josh, but I challenge you to side-arm a 10M brick or an Arrow.  Smile
I can't even backhand the POSs. Wink

Actually, I got a fair overhand shot with the Brick once.  Didn't go more than 100 feet, but it still is the longest throw I've had with the thing.

--Josh
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steveohio
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« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2008, 02:33:18 PM »

Is there an exercise to build the right muscles for side arming? I can definitely recall time and again where it would
have been Very useful. Josh, sounds like Dad is very active. Unfortunately, we dont have leagues around here
without driving 50 miles away; Im sure there are many who do go that far or farther. Im not intimidated by the
weather temp-wise; but, Im not likely to play much snow DG. It'd be alone and I dont care to play by myself.
Do play as often as possible and Summer, Spring, and Fall it'd be several times a week. Very Happy
Welp, gotta go play before the storm a comin Very Happy
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